What do space cats, uncertified toilet paper, and reversed blood flow have in common?
They all came up in my wide-ranging, hilarious, and at times sobering conversation with astronaut Leroy Chiao — one of NASA’s best, brightest, and bluntest.
Leroy is a veteran of four spaceflights, including a six-and-a-half-month stint commanding the International Space Station during Expedition 10 - October 13, 2004 - April 24, 2005. He’s also someone I’m proud to call a friend.
Our chat played out in three acts:
The Cold War kid learns to love the Russians (and their launchpad cats).
What it means to be “stranded” in space — and why astronauts rarely complain.
NASA in 2025: a giant leap… backward?
ACT I: From Furrowed Brows to Furry Friends
When Leroy joined NASA in 1990, the idea of collaborating with Russia on spaceflight was still unthinkable to many inside the agency — especially those with military backgrounds.
“I was a child of the Cold War,” Leroy told me. “I’d been raised on the propaganda — the Soviets were the enemy. We all thought, ‘Why are we throwing money at them? Our tech is better. What could they possibly bring to the table?’”
That all changed with Leroy’s first trip to Star City in 1996.
“It worked,” he admitted. “Their systems were simple. Mechanical. Functional. Crude, maybe — but reliable.”
Reliable... and a bit wild. Case in point: during a visit to the Khrunichev rocket factory, Leroy spotted cats roaming the floor. Factory workers were feeding them bowls of milk.
“They told me, ‘The cats catch the mice. The mice chew through the wiring,’” he laughed. “Problem solved.”
That East-meets-West design philosophy gap became a running theme. Where NASA used computer-controlled actuators, the Russians used… counterweights. Where Americans designed spacecraft to look sleek and aerodynamic, the Russians built little space onions that looked slapped together with extra rivets.
“They build a Soviet pickup truck with crank windows. It’s ugly, but it starts every time,” Leroy said. “Meanwhile, we’re over here building Cadillacs with too many failure modes.”
ACT II: The Stranded Astronauts (That Weren’t)
Recently, the media has had a field day with the “stranding” of Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore aboard the ISS after Boeing’s Starliner ran into yet another glitch. Leroy — ever a provider of the straight gouge — had thoughts.
“They weren’t really stranded,” he said. “They had a ride home. If there was an emergency, that Boeing capsule could bring them back. But the press loves a Gilligan’s Island story.”
Still, Leroy knows how that kind of mission extension can mess with your head — because it almost happened to him. Just months before his launch to ISS, he and his crewmate were told they might have to stay a full year aboard the station. Why? Because a wealthy Russian tourist had bought a ride on the capsule in line to bring them home.
“But he didn’t fit. His knees jammed up against the panel. They would have 100% would’ve broken on landing.” Their extended mission was canceled - even though NASA had touted it as a boon for science. It wasn’t - nor was it when Scott Kelly flew for a year - also because a wealthy tourist bought a ride - singer Sarah Brightman. She also bailed on the flight, but NASA’s PR machine was too far down the road to make a U-turn on the Scott Kelly year-doggle.
In the end, Leroy came home after six months. But he never forgot how quickly mission plans can change — and how little astronauts can do but adapt. “That’s what we’re trained for,” he said. “Adaptability. Resilience. And never letting them see you sweat.”
ACT III: Bureaucracy in Orbit
Speaking of sweat, try changing out expired medications one pill at a time — in zero gravity — because the replacement bottles are shrink-wrapped and not in regular containers to save weight (or upmass as they say on the space racket)..
Or how about spending two full days searching for old batteries that NASA worried might explode in the Russian Progress freighter after it burns up in the atmosphere.
“That’s when you start to resent the people on the ground,” Leroy said. “I’m floating around, doing Easter egg hunts for used batteries, and they’re worried about hypothetical explosions in the middle of reentry fire.”
His greatest hits of bureaucratic madness include:
The Uncertified Toilet Paper: NASA warned Leroy not to flush American TP into the Russian toilet — because it hadn’t been certified. The solution? Quiet rebellion. “We used it anyway,” he said. “Worked just fine.”
The Banned Can Opener: NASA refused to send replacement can openers (used for Russian food) because they could “leave sharp edges.” Russians smuggled new ones in from a local grocery store.
The Suffocation-Safe Ziplocks: Safety teams refused to send up new bags because an astronaut might “get stuck inside one and suffocate.” I mean… come on.
The Body in Space: Strange Science
Leroy also touched on the medical weirdness that comes from living in microgravity — from degraded vision (which, for him, later improved), to radiation exposure, to lowered immunity, to… reversed blood flow?
“One astronaut had blood going the wrong way in a vein,” he said. “On Earth, that’s a huge red flag. In space? Totally fine, apparently. Just another day on orbit.”
And while Leroy walked away from his missions without measurable bone loss, he acknowledged it’s not the same for everyone — and the long-term health risks of deep spaceflight remain unknown.
“We still don’t fully understand what happens to the human body out there,” he said. “But we do know this — six months is about the sweet spot. A year? That’s pushing it.”
The Future of NASA… or Lack Thereof?
Finally, we turned our gaze back to Earth — and NASA’s uncertain future under a new Trump-Musk administration.
With billionaire pilot and space tourist Jared Isaacman nominated to lead the agency, Leroy is cautiously optimistic.
“I’ve never met him, but people say good things. He’s smart. Passionate. But the task ahead is daunting.”
Why? Because NASA, as Leroy sees it, has become a jobs program tied down by political inertia.
“We went from zero to the Moon in 11 years,” he said. “In the past 21 years since (the loss of) Columbia, we haven’t flown a single astronaut to space in a new spacecraft.”
His recommendation? Cancel the Space Launch System. Double down on SpaceX’s Starship. Get real about timelines and commercial partnerships. And for God’s sake, cut through the red tape.
Otherwise?
“We’ll be paying $4.5 billion a launch to throw away reusable engines — while China builds a Moon base.”
Epilogue: Still Standing
As we wrapped up, I asked Leroy how he’s doing, nearly 20 years after his final spaceflight.
“I’m still standing,” he smiled. “Little more gray. But no long-term effects. And hey — my eyesight got better.”
Of course it did. Because Leroy Chiao is still seeing things clearly — up there, and down here — with sharp eyes, sharper stories, and a razor-sharp sense of what’s broken and what’s worth fixing.
You can find him at OneOrbit.com, where he continues to inspire earthlings with the lessons of space.
And as always, thanks for coming along for Miles to Go.
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